Quang Hoang founded PlatoHQ (www.platohq.com), emerged from YCombinator, funded by Slack, SaaSTR fund, VP Engineering Slack and Founder Zoom among others. PlatoHQ is helping engineers become great Engineering Leaders. He’s passionate about leadership, startups, bots, AI and innovation. His dream is to build a solution to make everyone reach their full potential at work. He has an Engineering and Business background and had the chance to grow up in France and Vietnam, two countries with the best food in the world.
[0:00] Quan welcome to the show.
Actually I’m glad to have you on here so everyone Kwang is here in our San Francisco office is enjoying the nice of you behind me I’ll definitely put a picture that up on the show notes on what we give our audience a little bit about your background.
[0:20] Hi my name is Conan the co-founder and CEO of Play-Doh and I come from an engineering background I.
[0:29] Start at my company right after college so we both match experience trying to solve problems that.
We can have and we’ve been doing so many tuition until until Play-Doh that I love to tell more.
[0:46] Yeah absolutely absolutely so you would did you have to go to school for as an engineer or computer science.
[0:53] Yes yes.
[0:54] Two dead right and then was starting your company right I got kind of a big shock.
[0:58] If it was it was but we didn’t realized before and that’s kind of.
The strength of young people building a company.
Is that you don’t know what you will experience in the next few months to years and I think that is what’s a help us to go really fast in the beginning.
[1:20] It’s another story further dates you but actually started my first company in senior year of college not knowing anything about anything so it was one of the best learning experiences but there is some pain points involved in it.
[1:33] Yes and you don’t the hard way but you still then.
[1:36] That’s right that’s right so you founded this company so what is it what is Play-Doh and it wasn’t always play it alright so.
[1:44] Nut already I can tell you what it’s Play-Doh and catch me more about like where we come from but Play-Doh basically we on a mission to help.
Engineers to become great engine in liters because usually company or when you build a company you have an engineering background.
And in company you pick the best engineer and you promote them as managers but it’s a completely different skill-set right.
It’s difference soft skills different than hot skills and especially For Engineers to Philly for a company which are going really fast at promoting people really fast in video.
It’s a big pain points how to help them become great managers.
Because it’s really important to have great managers to retain people to make them productive to make them happy and to like Beatles agree company.
[2:39] Absolutely absolutely see it’s a cause that I completely believe in until I do this podcast right I think we can we share similar goals and trying to help the engineering leadership community.
Not just in San Francisco here but internationally as well right so so tell me a little about your actually were based or founded in France is that correct.
[2:58] Yes so we are three co-founders coming from France so we begin France and we had the chance to.
I going to wake up in editor last last year and Y combinator help us to be.
Really ambitious and being too and they convince us that everything such a big innovation has to has to come from here and spread.
I read after so yes we can from Friends,
we had the chance to go to AC we fell in love with Silicon Valley in California so that’s why since the beginning of this year we are moving here now but we still have the engineers in Perry.
As I recall you didn’t not only did you not start is Plato you were a previous company birdley but then you also weren’t even doing engineering sort of leadership manage Meandering when you started right.
[4:00] No and I think that the.
At the most important thing when you begin a company is to try to solve problem you had yourself,
and when we begin a company we didn’t have any experience with my co-founder so we didn’t have any management experience so we could not have been solving this but we were trying to solve different things that we express doing,
internships are all really early experience as professionals and the first thing we build actually was a solution to help you with your expense reports.
And while we made many attritions from a sackbot for the expense reports to attack both for that analytics of your customers.
Two Play-Doh beds and along the way we had so much we experience that pain,
being an engineer who needs human active offers and we made many many many mistakes along the way we,
we we learned it the hard way and but we we don’t think that we need it we all need to.
Julian the hard way like this.
Because that’s so many great engineer leaders in the world who can help you today on your challenges and on your problems and death,
how we try to accomplish the mission to help Engineers to become good engineer leaders.
[5:24] And you have a good story actually to the one of the pain points you had I remember from from speaking with your previous he is.
You pivoted into trying to solve this engineering leadership problem when when something happened at your company right there’s a prom with your engineer.
[5:40] Yeah it’s.
It’s not embarrassing anymore because so I can tell it it was at the time but now we stood back then we learned about it a lot a bit busy CLE.
We’ve been accepted to Y combinator and we already had 3 amperage 3 Developers.
Place to take off on Thursday with six and we all moved from Paris to her house in Mountain View so it was,
and we live together for a three months to six of us together we were working a lot.
And we were doing basically everything at the same time building this company trying to be good managers and occurring users trying to understand what uses wanted and everything at the same time bed this one thing that,
we really neglected was management and we didn’t have the skills but we didn’t put enough effort on this and.
So during the three months so everything went well in terms of customer Traction in terms of how we could meet investors at the tribe at.
Competing neglected the people passing the management and after this program after why she so it was last year.
Sweet long enough so I can tell everything about it but it’s not it’s not really funny but we lost all the divorce so all of them at the two of them left the company and its not.
[7:13] It’s not a bad thing for us needed for them because now they have much better managers I think.
But I think we could have avoided that with good mentors or good people could help us along the way.
[7:30] That must have come as quite a shock after going through a lot of those highs and then suddenly your developers quit.
[7:36] Yeah yeah it had.
[7:39] That back and but I think you know I think that shows a lot towards a little bit of when you kind of looked at that as a retrospective if you look back what went wrong,
you saw that wrong and you know I think what you’ve noticed is it something that’s not just common you know to you right into your startup is that.
There is a lot of.
Bad or Peter managers out there aren’t bad they just start an experience they don’t know that people in the management of people is so important right and that’s what you realized.
[8:10] Yes and you don’t know how to do it but sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know and we do not know that we didn’t know to be good managers and it was how much it was important and how much.
People at India Company are everything and especially in software especially in startups when it specially when you are 6 people.
People are everything and you need somebody to take care of you need to explain to them what’s the mission of the company why they’re so important what are you need to explain.
It is to celebrate what your all of the things that we saw so many managers do not realize or do not know how to do it.
[8:57] So you know when the questions I have to ask since starting this company now geared towards helping engineering managers and leaders.
Have you actually been able to learn to become a better manager and Leader by participating in this yourself like have you are you learning as well along with all the other people on the platform.
[9:18] So so what we do is is the building a network of mentors.
And thank you for being part of this network Christian and mentors are.
Experienced engineer leaders and they are old engineer manager is director of engineering VP of engineering of great companies like telmate like Google Facebook lift unit,
and they all excited to give the time every week 30 minute of the time too weak to be matched with a great scientist who dressed are willing to learn.
And ice I’m on the man teapot I want you improve my management skills and I actually try to be better every every week thanks to that phone so yes I’m actually using the platform and trying to be better I don’t have.
Much much responsibilities as I don’t lead like hundreds of Engineers but still it still important when you have a few because it’s a lot of a comparatively right.
[10:28] Absolutely but I think that’s good that you’re actually using it so not only is this helping you improve as a manager,
but you’re actually getting that feedback on the service and the product that you’re running to make sure as a user you can be right there to recommend any any improvements that could be made to the system.
[10:46] Yes it’s one of the most important thing as an interpreter of Rights is to,
to understand what is the problem so we understand because we experienced it before but also to use your own product to see if it’s actually,
useful and if it actually affected so so we can eat our own own food.
[11:09] Sure eat the own dog food cans they say.
Now if I if I’m a manager at a company out there when my listeners is is listening to this how does this work right how how would a manager out there who’s interested in using kind of dad to Plato service tell me a little bit how that works.
[11:27] So they’re they’re so busy cleat when you are manager you have to kind of challenges you have the problem and the challenges you know you have and the problem chance if you don’t know you have.
So we can address both type of challenges and problems so for the first so we have a few different use cases one of them is that.
Whenever you want whenever you have a challenge when you have your whenever you have a problem you just go in slack so where you already are.
All day long and every day and it just talked to Play-Doh it’s a it’s a boat’s but actually controlled by a human.
To share what is your challenge about what is your problem about hey Play-Doh I want to get better at giving a doing my one-on-one.
And we are going to be here to ask you a few traffic ation questions to do the perfect matching possible so it’s five minutes chat by text saying hey how are you on once today.
Why do you think that I’m not effective what have you tried so far what work would you don’t work those kind of question with easy so it will help you to better formulate what is your challenge app.
And then in five minute chat what we do is to connect you with the right mentor.
We whom you will have thirty minutes discussion by Zoom so it’s a video conference so it’s only 30 minutes of your time.
[13:08] And the mentor who you would be match with we have received before our briefing about what is your challenge about and the the the main a value that we bring.
Is on the matching and the older logistic Paso the scheduling rescheduling if necessary to do so that’s that’s one of the use case.
We have a two different order yusuke so is his number 2 is how for example at talk to you as my mentor you give me some really great advice about one-on-ones but I’m sure you can help me on many other things and we can propose,
that this man twerking become your longtime mentor and so you can create a deeper relationship.
With one Mentor who will talk to you once a month for the 6 or 12 next month so that’s the second is gay.
And the told you sketch is actually a huge need because.
As I told you sometimes managers and engineer managers don’t know what they don’t know so you cannot reach out to parents a problem of about one-on-ones for example if I don’t know I have a plan about one once but.
So that’s why we push some contents.
Regularly to managers and saying that this content has been written by Christian mechanic one of our amazing Mentor would you like to meet with Christian if the story and the content really reason that’s with what you are experiencing.
[14:39] And if you click you can connect and we can talk for 30.
[14:42] Great so and for listeners to will put all of the links to the Play-Doh and everything else so if you’re interested in signing up for service in our show notes so you can definitely look at that for the show simple leadership.
What are the things but how many mentors are in the side right now.
[15:00] Sylvia morning headed mentors.
[15:02] 100 enters.
[15:03] Yes we have more than a hundred mentors and we stopped the sign up to be a mentor because we have too many sign-ups to become mentors.
And we want to we want mentors to have a good experience and have actually have colds so for now we start but we are going to open it.
Soon and we are really really impressed by how many.
What a help how many people how many you create engine in liters just one share their knowledge and want to help you not doing the same mistake they made in the past.
[15:39] Sure sure and the on the other side of the coin damenti’s are at the managers are more more signing up for the site to is that is that growing well.
[15:49] Yes in that that is dickering really well to the feedback has been really great and I think that we.
[15:59] The truth really important parts of having a good mentorship program in your company the two important things are.
The logistics because you need for.
Do you need Logistics and matching logistic e because you need to eat it to be consistent and if you have a solution if you have a program that helps you to schedule something and with your mentor.
And it like helps you doing it since the buyer to entries really low and DeLucca sticks at the truck is really easy and inexpensive seem less,
then it will it will you will you will use it even more and the second thing is about the matching and we it’s kind of or like,
what’s we we we we think.
The matching is one of the most important thing I can tell you about how we do the matching but basically that’s really important part of building a successful mentorship program.
[17:00] So taking a step back a little more General know what why is mentorship so important.
What if what what is your research done what have you seen you know Abba see your whole business and your company is based upon mentoring and the importance of that mentor-mentee relationship so why is it so important for the software Engineers to get mentors.
[17:21] Yes so before building anything.
We interviewed a lot of VP of HR companies and VP of engineering and,
and we asked him like how do you supports your engineers to become good managers and how do you support engineering address to get better at management.
And so the two types of solution that we.
I found that were like it that companies were using were either,
a training or two it’ll resources for example mooc or books or videos or those kind of frigid articles.
My toes are the problem with Towing tickle coasters and mocha situational impactful.
Because it’s really based on Terry and it’s really not something that really tailored to you.
It’s not to tell her to what you are experiencing right now and the second is either,
you can be much more impactful than than a book for example we can all understand that but you can really be really expensive,
it could be from 500 to 1 K per hour with a vindictive coach and and they’re sick and problem with your coach is that.
I usually coaches are have not been managing or any Engineers before and I know how.
[18:54] You can get different to manage Engineers than managing all the type of people and so that’s why I think that you need to be held.
By people who actually have been in your shoes before,
people who have been actually between managing Engineers they can feel it in the stand your challenge they can give you like really practical and good advice about how did it in the past.
And just like hearing how a mentor has sold an issue.
Even though it’s not really your station right now is really really really rich.
[19:31] And I think that one of the things you pointed out is there is a difference between managing software Engineers right and managing maybe something else in another field.
And on top of that I think that if you came out of a field would like an NBA I mean you went to school when you went for business you got an MBA.
The date they teaching those courses management principles right if you go to a CS degree weather underground or graduate.
There aren’t any classes really out there that teach you about any type of management or leadership fundamentals right it’s about CS fundamentals and now Griffin’s Ryan data structures.
So you’re out there.
And not only is it you know managing in it and it’s off engineer is challenging itself but then the people who become managers typically in this is I grew through you want them to be.
Have been suffering Juniors previously to get to understand the domain you’re in.
But they’ve had almost no experience right when other fields they might have actually had some level of indirect or direct experience but now you go from a software engineer to manager overnight right and is lots of problems associated with.
[20:40] And actually you are like just you can sleep with your say you have.
Three problems that make that an engineer who want to become manager,
is promatic in this much more difficult than other industry the first thing is that exactly what you say we never we never had any,
training before at school or and or so I think that a good engineer.
And it is not created to a good manager because being good at hot skill that coding or it’s not different different than being with Sasuke,
my communication like how to motivate your team how to get energy how to feel empathy with your employees and like I think it’s pretty different instead of other Industries,
order of the reticle like for example sales a good sales needs to communicate really great with clients,
and also it’s something that it will really be helpful for a sales manager when he will be able to cell division to his sales guys.
And like but it’s the same’s audience of your for sale and Virginia’s different.
[21:50] And in a completely uniphar disclaimer I actually am a mentor through kind of the Plato’s system with with Kwang in his team I’m actually also Mentor through another program called ever-wise.
And you know one of my reasons for doing this and giving back with her a couple right one.
I had a great mentor right and I think I’ve had some formal and then informal mentorships but I think those specific people who took their time out of their day really made a big difference in my career.
And on top of that I think that as a suffering leader.
If I can help new managers out there and they come to my team someday right then that’s just a better team right I have to spend less time actually trying to train,
and do everything themselves you know that I have to do and we can just work and I know and I can trust it all they’ve been through this program,
they have some support as well whether it’s you know another mentorship program then.
We can focus a little bit more and actually do the job and and the software and the product versus just trying to bring up you know new managers and Coach them you know along the way.
[22:59] And Christian thank you so much for having been our first customer of interesting us since the beginning with your managers and I think they’re really happy with the pro the program so far.
[23:10] And one of the things that I think you know I find that the feedback I get in and as from the people that I have becoming mentees as well as the managers you know that I meant as well.
There’s something I think.
A little different about being able to coach and guide someone outside of your organization right I think one of the problems is a leader in this space.
I’ll sometimes one and ones which is one of your Prime times for trying to do mentorship and and coaching sometimes they get unfortunately even for myself.
You served with status reports and Howard projects going and some crisis of the day.
And some of that career coaching and Progressive and how we going to work together it’s slips to a little bit less priority and.
By being able to take some time dedicated to work with a mentor outside of your organization I think is kind of a special relationship because you’re not you’re not involved with any of the politics right you’re not involved with the deadline it’s coming next week.
And it really helps both as a mentor and is a mentee to be located in a completely objectively and not under.
Here without all of the preconceived notions about how your company works or doesn’t work and allows for some new ideas to come that someone else to run the company you know I love when my.
My manager is actually go out and talk with the with the you know a mentor you know outside of organization because sometimes.
You know that it’s a little freezer burn from you little bit and what to iReal and help my employees but sometimes there’s just someone else’s a different idea that we didn’t think up right and then they bring an organization and we all benefit.
[24:50] Yes yeah having other ideas and.
Eyes being like we saw something also that has been really wonderful is being accountable to someone external fuel cannulation can help you for example driving to meet that person every month,
then every month you all green to and Dementors doesn’t know anything about the contact of the other company,
so he or she doesn’t really care about like a fly oh you know it like it’s the pain relief after recently in the back company,
at what we say that be accountable to someone extender who doesn’t know the day-to-day of your company is really poor food and it actually make you do every month and progress every month and we so that is,
iridium value to be accountable to someone external you are much more I can take.
[25:42] And I want to bring up this if it’s a slight difference to I did a fireside chat with Nick Caldwell and that’ll be on the podcast.
And one of things talks about is difference between mentorship and sponsorship right which is kind of a very interesting difference where that sponsorship is a very bit more.
Almost formal public acknowledgement of support started between two people but it does give you that.
And I sense of you don’t want to let the other person down and then you know it’s going to be kind of a long-term thing and they’re putting their name you know as a reference almost for you publicly.
That they’re trying to help you receive so you listen to my podcast with Nick Caldwell and you’ll he he goes into the little bit I think it was a very good it’s a very good other concept between notches mentorship and coaching but also this concert the sponsorship.
So what has been the feedback so far for the mentors and damenti’s through this program.
[26:38] So I saved one to defeat managing crates and I think that one of the most important thing is the matching.
And you can be when it’s like one of the most important thing because.
[26:57] We all want to be mentored by great names or the VP of anything of that company.
But what’s really interesting with the model that we built is that.
You are matched with someone who actually have been experiencing the same thing as you are experiencing right now.
In the same context meaning maybe size of company or maybe in this area of the world in the Silicon Valley and that’s how what we think is the best type of metal ship.
So how we do that is that when I unload the mentor when we end on the mentor if I am bored you Christian so Christian I won’t ask you are you a good leader.
Or where what where are you strength.
And usually people don’t know or people are too modest or to say where what are the real strength but if I ask you a really fun question which is.
A Christian can you tell me some stories of your past that the manager can you tell me something back. Your past then you will tell me stories.
Of of management that.
You are you have been really good at or you to tell me stories where you really screwed up but you said back then you Rihanna nut.
So I can take me to easily about my experience in why Community LSPD Whoppers I can help anyone who is going to recommunity who who is going to be three developers junior is there to know them self I can help them.
[28:36] And an addition you will talk about topics that you really like talking about in that really important mentors like to help but they also want to help on topics that they like to talk.
And so when did tell us some stories while watching them down indexing your database and when a mentee has the same type of challenge we are matching with that Mentor because that man totally The Descent story and that’s the main.
A feedback of Aura users of amenities about the matching has been really great I don’t need to talk with the VP of engineering at Airbnb,
if a middle manager or anything major at the community can be really helpful.
If he had been to that challenge before.
I thought about it a lot before step back and process it before and he can really help me understand my challenge.
So that’s why I’ve been to the most important piece of feedback.
[29:36] Sure don’t know great no.
Obviously have a lot of people asking questions you have a lot of mentors telling stories on the on the manager menticide what is been there any common things what’s the most common question people are asking for help for.
[29:56] So many birds.
I think you have like a list of 40 topics 40 topics and the most common one or.
Think it’s about internet communication and internal processes.
It’s about underperformance and how to identify.
When you need to fire someone or any to put someone in the performance equipment and for example.
Or so about hiring and firing is one of the most important thing you can do is as a leader and.
In hiring you so mentees have challenges about how to identify what type of profile do I need.
If I need. Or if I need specialized life in junior or senior but also.
How to interview and how to assess the technical skills and distal skills of an engineer.
So does something really important to and or two about when you hire someone how you unload that that person.
So that order I think the most common and also about just basic more basic things but like recorded the manager 101.
How did you want an once or how to keep it back or like all of those of the Speedy I think basic.
[31:34] Fundamentals of being a manager that we didn’t know doing way community and me didn’t do anyone wants example.
[31:42] Yeah which is one of the most important you know Tools in your in your manager Arsenal right yeah obsolete very important so what’s next for Plato what would you have coming up.
[31:53] So of course we are going to grow in the Andes.
On this number of mentors on the type of changes to can address.
And on the number of users were going to help every day so just doing the same thing but with more people but they’re two things that we having on mind today.
And I think it can be really you know our mission is to help you grow as a manager.
Connecting connecting you with the best the right people the right to managers.
And sometimes to write manager is someone internally sometimes and so.
When you are in the bigger company or memory may be at your size of company.
The best people can be sometimes someone internal and it really depends the type of challenge,
if you want inspiration about how people do they want in one of their company so go outside and talk to people outside but if it’s something really contextual to your,
I have company and really specific to the culture of your company you want to talk to the right person internally and or system of matching.
Is something we can apply internally to so it makes sense when you have a number of engineer manager which is which is high and you can don’t know all the other major did you don’t know.
They can help you with and we soon or kind of mentorship program in companies where are you are assigned randomly to another engineering a drill or event.
[33:32] To a sales manager and usually when I meet that person I talked about last vacation and that’s not that’s not the point of mentorship the point is to match people who are being,
it it have been challenging the same issues in the same problems and so that’s something was thinking about and we are experimenting,
pilot with lift actually so they have managers they want to.
To match managers with internal and external mentors,
depending on the type of change that something we are really working on and we are trying to see if other companies could be interested to build Spirit together.
[34:13] And also I’ve been so we received so many demands of other types of other disciplines and in particular.
I put it managers and Engineers so today we are dressed.
Trying to know more but it’s something that could come maybe.
Maybe sooner than we toads.
Because even though we think that engineer address is the right needs to feel we don’t know if we could go to all the discipline in the future and that’s because that.
It might be the same types of matching by bit different but still I don’t I think that we all need to.
To grow and the best way to grow is to talk and connect with the red people.
[35:10] Sure yeah I think product managers make sense and also I might teens you know I have operations and devops and you know data center operation.
You know that the concept of needing good managers not limited just to engineer’s.
Right I think if we can prove engineering across All Tech disciplines until I can violate it will be a very very big win.
[35:32] Yes and you would be surprised how much people like sharing the knowledge and it’s in that it in any discipline and it product managers and then flaps any managers.
[35:47] And you have you had some successful public events in the past and you have another one coming up so tell me a little about that.
[35:56] Yes sure.
Mission is to train the next generation of engineering leaders connecting people together and one part of it could be to connect people.
Physically like and we just won’t sit in the beginning to organize a small meter just you,
I celebrate the launch of a product was 3 months ago in San Francisco where you having an amazing speaker and we just wanted to do as more meet up and it ended,
we had 250 attendees and wanted to do something with 50 people and we have 250 attendees and we saw that there was so much of the men.
Or engineer when I do the Junie leaders to connect to hear from other people saying about their mistakes,
and Engineers engineer managers and leaders.
A really really great speakers because they are not afraid to talk about the mistakes and I care I just,
what is an adapter ended up then being like the server has been down for 2 weeks so like and that’s before and that people like talking and it’s not true in the other disciplines,
have more like a a mask like Italian no like don’t want to talk about the mistake Engineers what’s amazing is that they like.
About their mistakes.
And the people like to share but this so it has been a people want to connect speakers like to talk about their mistakes they’re not so many events on engineering leadership.
[37:35] So all of this made the first event a success so we met a second one about a month ago in Paris and it has been even more success and just for the anecdote we.
The time of the event was to bring the best of engineering leadership from Silicon Valley to Paris.
And I just I didn’t believe it but I just sent 6 emails to mentors saying who live in San Francisco.
Would you be okay to come to Paris,
and 5 of them yeah I love to come to Paris and so some of them to like a week off to go to Paris to speak to that event,
some of them like just flew for 24 hours and just because event.
And we have 5 people coming from the Silicon Valley we brought five people as five engine Ingman leaders in in the best Arabs in France.
And we try to see how if they could speak the same language and I I can I can see that.
[38:41] Even though we need training in Zeke and very even though we we all need to get better we have we are two steps ahead in terms of what is interning leadership what is an engineer manager Tetra and.
I think that all Mission goes Way Beyond Silicon Valley.
And it weighs like we are going to do more events in everyone in the world because everyone in the world rebuild product if we were in the world we have Engineers if you and will I need good managers in good engineer manager.
Engineering leaders and will try to bring the best of what we see here to other countries and.
So it was a success in Paris and.
And we are we try to find a time to resources to organize another one and so it’s going to be the 9th of August so we will soon,
at the 9th of August and,
oh we are we will have amazing amazing speakers working at waymo looking at Facebook.
Telmate working at those companies a director and Senior engineering managers.
Are actually those who don’t have you know Dee.
The chance to speak at events but they are actually doing the work they’re doing amazing work and they want.
About what they learn and they are really as a soda.
[40:12] The the quality of speakers and the contents is not related to the yaqui of the title.
Because some engineering managers me the managers can have amazing things to say and we can learn so much about them and that’s the whole vision of Play-Doh right it’s like anyone.
Maintenance takes anyone learn a lot on certain areas at certain topics and anyone can help on those topics and Nick need to learn on other topics.
And that’s what we try to do identify who is good at what topics and Nikki.
Talk and so that people who want to ruin just listen to that person who is good at that up.
[40:56] And so this event is on August 9th in the evening.
[40:59] Anything in San Francisco.
[41:01] A name Sanchez go and where is it being held what’s the venue.
[41:04] It’s going to be at saastr coselling space 350 Rowland Street and in like in downtown San Francisco.
[41:13] And I think the tickets are on Eventbrite.
[41:16] Yes exactly so you going to go in in all website and you will find the link to the event so we can go to play to hq.com and you will see a link for the next event in the.
[41:28] Perfect Kwang Amy what’s the best way to get ahold of you that’s your website Play-Doh hq.com any any other ways to get ahold of you.
[41:37] Yeah sure like if anyone wants to share.
And if you wants if anyone’s want to get better at my engineer Management on want to be a mentor or just once,
share with me how how is some someone approaches that mission to,
can reach out anytime to come at 3 to hq.com and I answer to all my email.
[42:04] Well and I’ll have a lot of these links to the event and for Play-Doh and for Quang all and her show notes again those are simple leadership. I owe Kwong pleasure having you on the show this afternoon thank you very much for coming in.
[42:19] Thank you so much.