Managing Managers with Cate Huston

Cate HustonCate has spent her career working on mobile and documenting everything she learns using WordPress. Now she combines the two as Automattic’s mobile lead. She co-curates Technically Speaking, and admins the New-(ish) Manager Slack.

You can find her on Twitter at @catehstn and at cate.blog.

Show Notes:

LifeLabs Learning

NEW(-ISH) ENG-MANAGERS SLACK

Tool: Try Google’s Manager Feedback Survey

Running a Manager Feedback Cycle

 

(transcription provided by Google API)

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Christian Mccarrick:
[0:08] Good morning Cate welcome to the show.

Cate Huston:
[0:10] Hi Christian thanks so much for having me.

Christian Mccarrick:
[0:13] Absolutely it’s always my pleasure and I think I want to start off with this one I know you’re your remote today and I know you also have it should have a little thing that you do and where in the world is Kate so let me ask that question to you where in the world is Kate today.

Cate Huston:
[0:25] I’m in the UK right now I might yeah it’s I came by for like 2 days and then I’m heading to Island tomorrow I just got in from Venice last night.

Christian Mccarrick:
[0:37] Oh most excellent the last time I was in Venice is for the Venice biennale when Lucy was quite the quite the event.

Cate Huston:
[0:43] Yeah that’s what I went for I went two years ago to I love it it’s just it’s so cool.

Christian Mccarrick:
[0:49] Yeah I know it’s awesome and I think in this is totally a sidebar but one of the things I really liked was you know the art and the installations are really cool but,
I’ve really found interesting is that they opened up a lot of the buildings that are normally open to public and actually to go in So Not only was yard interesting but they need to go into these areas that aren’t normally open to the public was actually I think really cool too.

Cate Huston:
[1:08] Cats just like a tour of the world in Modern Art in like 2 days.

Christian Mccarrick:
[1:14] That’s right that’s right so great cape for.
Everyone out there I think a lot of my listeners actually pray probably know a little bit about you and they might have probably evolved read something that you’ve written since sisters you write a lot and but you know if you give me a quick highlights of where you,
got to be and how you got to be to where you are today.

Cate Huston:
[1:34] Sure.
So I got my BSC from the University but a bar I was a grad school in Canada until I dropped out sometime in between those I qualified as a ski instructor I went to Google Fair,
three and a half years in Canada Australia and the UK and like.
Today what twist out I did my own thing for a little bit and now I am I leave the Bible team it would have my back which is like 28 people now it’s pretty exciting.

Christian Mccarrick:
[2:07] Excellent so your team itself is there’s 28 people should have direct and indirect underneath you.

Cate Huston:
[2:12] Yeah yeah so 2828 like we have some new high as haven’t quite started but yeah it’s pretty exciting.

Christian Mccarrick:
[2:19] Excellent and I think specific to automatic write all of them are probably in separate locations are there any that are actually together.

Cate Huston:
[2:28] Yeah I hope we have a couple of cities where there’s like two people.

Christian Mccarrick:
[2:32] Those are the hubs.

Cate Huston:
[2:34] Yeah but mainly we spread across like North and South America so as far north as I think Winnipeg and as far south is that you’re a guy like Montevideo and Buenos Aires,
and then from Tokyo to what would be the most East like maybe.
Baby Prague.

Christian Mccarrick:
[2:57] Okay excellent what might have to another have to have another show just about should have remote teams and especially managing managers of remote teams but that that could probably take a while to sort of itself.

Cate Huston:
[3:08] Yeah I know in some ways I just think remote is easier because the things for the holiday like explicitly hot,
you know like everyone knows on a distributed team like wow communication is really hot but like I mean from what I I mean I used to walk Coco locate to Katie and play obviously it Google and like I know.
No funny people who I concur located environment does not like communication is like completely fine in those either I like everybody has these problems and in some ways when you’re distributed like everything’s wet and down like,
you know you know it’s hard so you can just walk it at.
It wasn’t thinking well I sit next to him or her so I know everything is goat that’s going on like that can you can still have no idea what’s happening.

Christian Mccarrick:
[3:49] That’s right that’s an excellent point you’re almost forced to to do the things that are for that should be best practices even if you working together but it forces you to do them when you’re not there that’s a good point.

[4:00] And I think usually I asked a lot of gas about how they kind of got into management but since the focus I think of our chat today is going to be a little bit,
on managers managers kind of want to skip over a little bit and jump into how did you become a manager or managers then right what was what was the oldest for that leap and how did that happen.

Cate Huston:
[4:19] Mine like asked me to send I was like are you sure.
But yeah if I do you know what idea and yeah sorry I was really worried about it but in some ways it’s hard and in some ways it’s easy of I think kind of thing that’s hot Airways.
What is the so many things going on you know it’s very.
I feel like when I was just wanting a team of ice he’s like obviously you have this week’s when you just like oh my God you know but then you have this week’s wild things are kind of quiet and everything’s moving along,
I feel like I never got time for this week,
you know this light whatever for four projects going on in my team right now and like you know it feels like there’s never a week with is not something while I’m like oh my God.
But I think there’s a couple things that easier so I feel like I spend all my attempt to operate more credible consistent level of extraction now.
So
any good money thing I see is it’s kind of like sometimes you kind of figuring out team strategy and sometimes you like kind of mourned the details of things and kind of going between those two things I found really really hot.
It’s like context switching but like so just switching context Faye it’s just even more than that but as I feel like.
Anything manages its more consistently like this is the level of abstraction that I’m afraid of that I would say kind of like when you manage manages you generally end up focused on.

[5:57] For me at least I’m focused on the people on the team who is a kind of Willy effective like those are the people who I am generally spending my time with and so that’s kind of easy it to.

Christian Mccarrick:
[6:07] Sure not to ask you a question and you know this isn’t me I manage manage managers and then matters it matters a couple of deep but still in my Oreck I have a couple of,
people and I want to call and stray is right because they’re they’re very important your butt so I have this also a couple of individual contributors that’s still report to me like I’m the kind of,
architecture side right you have any of those as well.

Cate Huston:
[6:29] I don’t know the definitely Icey’s on the team who don’t like on managing teams but who I spend more time with,
like we have one who she wants a project and she is going to be taking over as a team lead was one of the team needs is on sabbatical so I kind of sheet and key was to someone else but I tend to like.
Check in with her more often or you know like I sees on the team Hill kind of leading projects I tend to just make a point to speak to them a bit more often but it’s just manages who on the org chart report to me.

Christian Mccarrick:
[7:05] Sure sure,
since you’ve been doing that and I’d like to sort of do a little bit of a team and management retrospective everyone so if you’re to mention anything what,
might you have done differently or looking back now wish you had known about or or prepared for by going into becoming a manager or managers now.

Cate Huston:
[7:26] That’s such a good question.
I’d say one of the biggest mistakes I made with accidentally implementing deadlines.
I think it’s sad I mean say really what happened is that you know like this,
I generally kind of feel in this is my life flossophy is like it’s not about we don’t have to operate in the same way there’s some things I care about I try to make that last for a short you know and in general what we doing is like we want to be,
will manage in different ways and that the best way to be a good manager is too kind of really just.
Can I find your authentic style I guess I kind of hate the word authentic cuz I just feel like it’s always something that is so kind of cord to me that I didn’t realize.
Like maybe other people wouldn’t be doing them so for example it’s impossible for me to have some kind of project without some kind of concept of like what’s the end in sight for this project Ashley when do I think that will happen.
You know what are we what are we going to Wards and so when I came in I was trying to take stock of everything that was going on.
And so I started putting together this thing that became we call it the state of all the things and said this is a lot multi-engine a multi-month projects,
and so I’m like what is this project why we taking it out on you know what does done look like when do we think Don will happen.

[9:04] You know I’m right and like for me like there’s no project that I would have when I wouldn’t have on sister cities.
Turns out you know not the case battery but.
And I’d like accident yeah yeah until I kind of accidentally implemented deadlines by asking these questions and that was really not the way that I would go about doing that if I’d realized that you know.
These wet things people have been thinking about since and that was kind of something when that you know.
That was some fixing to do that after I I kind of made that mistake and you know it with much more deliberately we’re trying to talk about like what do I go.

Christian Mccarrick:
[9:49] You’re pointing out as well as that as a manager and managers and even matters in general I think it’s important as you mentioned to kind of set some of your expectations right maybe not to have a whole list because then they gets lost. He should have had zero.
Your theme of the things are important to you and making sure that your team understand that things are important to you instead of your your ethos and instead of your philosophy on things and making sure that you’re on the same page.

Cate Huston:
[10:19] Yeah totally.
Totally I think another big thing that I’ve been trying to kind of get to is like we can make mistakes as a team but we really have to earn those mistakes and I don’t understand why they happen.
And that’s something that people can find really scary it fast you know it’s like oh you know like,
free admit we had a problem like it it really bad is going to be bad for a while is it going to look bad outside the team by she really think that you know if you can own your mistakes and kind of really demonstrate that you understand why they happened in,
that you watch.

Christian Mccarrick:
[10:55] Yeah I know I think absolutely.

Cate Huston:
[10:56] I don’t think that’s really an.

Christian Mccarrick:
[10:57] And as you get into you know and I’ll go through some of these some of these items I know I’ve read you writing about so you know it will go into someone more details on them,
and I think when I think about,
being a manager managers in and you talk about this a little bit too it’s a difference between again scaling yourself or scaling your team but now scaling the managers to then have the multiplier effect on their teams right.

Cate Huston:
[11:28] Yeah absolutely is that like how did you find that transition like.

Christian Mccarrick:
[11:32] No I think it was you. When I got into being a manager or managers its first it’s that if you.
Maybe double today but I found if I may be doubling code even as a manager it’s sort of almost stopped as if it came out of your managers right as much as I would like to I think it became even more important for me to make sure I absolutely was not the bottleneck right and Annie.
Type of your critical path items are required you know code right away it’s really trying to delegate right.
Yeah I think for me too. You know we talked about you as you become a manager delegate it becomes important but.
Becoming a manager managers for me I found that it was almost an exponential Importance of Being able to delegate effectively.
And for me.
The big piece that I really jumped into before I think I miss it just becomes if I think manager maturation and just personal nitration but when.
I got a new manager managers that was my first time I really felt that actually got into the concept of coaching.
Right where I mean I would try to do some career development for ICS but I think when I got to the manager matters that’s when I really sort of found the importance of trying to coach managers.

Cate Huston:
[12:54] Yeah I think that’s such a great point I feel like getting a coach myself like I think that probably happened like six months before I started managing manages helps so much.
Because you know I’ve had as much I kind of learned by osmosis you know some of the quad.

Christian Mccarrick:
[13:12] Yeah and that’s a good point to that coincides with me I think I got one of my one of my probably the most important mentor suchko.

Cate Huston:
[13:15] I think I’ve lost like obviously like everyone I think I have a lot more to learn on that but I totally agree with you.

Christian Mccarrick:
[13:21] I’m out of your manager to so for your up listen is out there too I think if you if your manager I think any of coaches is certainly helpful and if you become a manager or managers I think,
Jennifer Kate nice experience hear that it’s it’s it’s absolutely essential and I highly recommend.

Cate Huston:
[13:48] Has he really need someone to turn to as well,
bad I guess it’s just it’s super hard and this is you know like when I was a manager invitees like this was the thing that I really felt the most lame so his small company I was like the only person who just manage devices like my,
boss would like the VP of engineering and he managed all kinds of people including some I seen so I had no pads at work,
and that was stupid and so I ended up making this slack with some other people I found in kind of a similar position,
and we called it like the newish and manages slack can we set a really strong code of conduct you know we managed to cut it would create quite a few women to it like looks quite a few women reached out wanting to join it,
and it became this really great space and so it helped me see a lot more of the kind of the scope of things that people run into,
I think also.

Christian Mccarrick:
[14:44] You know you to talk about it I think in another one of your your post it being a manager is lonely.

Cate Huston:
[14:46] Which planet is now like even when I haven’t seen an example of that before like I have this great results to draw on in life is great results to kind of send them on edge so my team take me to.

Christian Mccarrick:
[14:55] It does who let you know I I can’t turned anyone I’m so sick of also to look up to me as having all the answers and so having that and you said.

Cate Huston:
[15:03] It’s so lonely and then managing manages like in some ways it.

Christian Mccarrick:
[15:06] Get someone who can support you whether it’s in a specifically with with management stuff for chest someone to lean on.

Cate Huston:
[15:27] Raid a hundred percent like every time your dog gets hot it like he needs to make a friend I’d like fully believe.
And it’s like it’s great cuz it would have been like I have pets now so one of them when I joined he was I like reported to him and then after a name for 5 months I got moved out from under heaven and now I report to the CIO.
We kept having one-on-one Cena and when I started.

Christian Mccarrick:
[15:53] Taking the higher you go get stuff.

Cate Huston:
[15:54] Now I may be more of me being like Oh my God please help me and now it’s more like.

Christian Mccarrick:
[16:00] Sincerely my case they haven’t been technical either.

Cate Huston:
[16:00] With me being like Oh my God please help me in 20 minutes to light what’s going.

Christian Mccarrick:
[16:04] The management stuff but then when you want to even find management as it relates to technology and Technology teams it’s not how I found I have to go out to that Network like you said that network of friends or acquaintances or colleagues might not know that I don’t work with the directly.

Cate Huston:
[16:32] I mean I think you were so and this is why I coach is is so good like you need somebody where it’s kind of safe to be.

[16:42] To be lost with you know like ultimately I’m going to come back to my team and be like I think we should do this you know I’m going to hit people out but like the decisions kind of on me and even to a Sonics.

Christian Mccarrick:
[16:54] That’s right and I think that’s important and me having a sale.

Cate Huston:
[16:56] Earthquake site I’m lucky cuz I have some like really great.

Christian Mccarrick:
[16:59] When your team is but also having a safe place to yourself.

Cate Huston:
[17:02] But with my cartridge like it’s a safe place for me to be like oh my God.

Christian Mccarrick:
[17:06] That may be a little guarded is As on the team I think we’ve talked about the impact that,
he and I had this this conversation a little bit with with the charity work,
here you don’t realize how much of an impact that your mood and the things you say having other people and as you become higher up in the organization manager managers excetera. Just also gets Amplified.

Cate Huston:
[17:41] Yeah this is totally true I said I was giving a talk last week and I told her we would talk we would.
Chatting as a team and not slack and I I made some like unfortunate choice of emoji and then business like reaction of like oh my God was talking to him like no no no this is just me like before I get to work,
these two Emoji what captures it and it was just like it’s kind of Willy.
Surprising right cuz I I mean I I I would just want to believe I’m about a normal human being who you know does Noble things like freak out before I give it to him front of you know a lot of people and it’s hard for me to be that it was quite a bit,
you know stuff gets wet into stuff.

Christian Mccarrick:
[18:23] You’re one of the things I wanted segue into is it what if I think the biggest mistake sorry.

Cate Huston:
[18:27] No I guess I kind of like intellectually know now into a set extended this time too but like I called quite.

Christian Mccarrick:
[18:31] Tire for a manager but you know beneath me and you know how did it how do you go about now hiring a manager to work for you cuz that’s definitely different than hiring and that ain’t what I see.

Cate Huston:
[18:57] Yeah it’s so different what am I looked really interesting cuz it is very very rare for people to be hot as.

Christian Mccarrick:
[19:03] Sure yeah.

Cate Huston:
[19:04] So every manager on my team you know kind of moved into a manager after kind of stuff,
a good amount of time some of them like what if I think like 8 years and I see you stand like a lot of things in that time so that’s me and that’s family.
Different you know so it is not hiring it’s about kind of finding people within the existing team who would be a good fit for it.
I think there’s a couple things that I really pay attention to you when I’m thinking about like who might be a good fit that I’m one of them is you know who helps you the people around them.
And so kind of one of one of the managers on the team when I was doing,
the first thing I did was just do one on one to everyone on the team like his name came up constantly is like this is someone he’s mentioned me this is someone he’s helped me and so then I was just like you know,
this guy what do people think and they.

Christian Mccarrick:
[20:02] Yeah I know that dummy that’s great and if you can find the person that everyone’s already like pointing at.

Cate Huston:
[20:06] An exceptional team made it was just such a such a great to say.

Christian Mccarrick:
[20:10] And whether they need to train.

Cate Huston:
[20:10] He was so ready for bed.

Christian Mccarrick:
[20:11] Or Mentor little dead or at least give them a shot.

Cate Huston:
[20:13] Chip kind of what the job is already.

Christian Mccarrick:
[20:15] And you had something going on leave and someone else kind of stepping in to take that place and I think that’s that’s probably a good opportunity for you know somebody to try out that role as well.

Cate Huston:
[20:38] Yeah so this is something me.
You know I tried to kind of talk to people about like what you need to be feel comfortable like I have kind of a lead on voting thing that I give people you know I asked if they want to be in the slot Keno we have this.
Tribal leadership training program now that we were able to put this kind of new lead into kind of ahead of before she even takes on this wall temporarily so that’s great I suggest older than getting a car,
I think it’s really helpful and so it’s kind of this thing in life is a lot of resources out there but I think it’s also kind of that can be super overwhelming to buy it so I tried to kind of.
Give people these things a little more gradually like I daily a bit before they.

Christian Mccarrick:
[21:21] That’s a great Point yeah I kind of do some of the same thing.

Cate Huston:
[21:23] Sometimes kind of.

Christian Mccarrick:
[21:24] There’s a couple good Reese’s other two.

Cate Huston:
[21:26] Oh you know you’re talking about.

Christian Mccarrick:
[21:27] Speed read and I have this massive.

Cate Huston:
[21:28] So I think this book could be really helpful to you like what.

Christian Mccarrick:
[21:31] Articles and like you said if I find something that someone has already said if I don’t say Sol but discuss this issue and I’ll try to send it off to someone to read this and I think that’s a great point.

Cate Huston:
[21:55] Yeah and then you know kind of encouraging people to be friends with each other to you know like this is something that you known people who feel like they have the time necessarily.

Christian Mccarrick:
[22:07] Turn it up here level support and pure love.

Cate Huston:
[22:08] Oh you know why don’t you ask you appear like he had.

Christian Mccarrick:
[22:12] Things you you brought up in you you did a Reese.

Cate Huston:
[22:14] Calling me send me in kind of.

Christian Mccarrick:
[22:15] About this is well is today.

Cate Huston:
[22:17] Chat a little bit wider than fit kind of Me toys.

Christian Mccarrick:
[22:18] Do you have a skip level meetings and so if you just go into a little bit about what that means to you and how you went about that process.

[22:28] Like a little stalker like for you to okay great.

Cate Huston:
[22:39] I feel like you really thought I really read my block like I’m like the best practical cats I’ve ever done.
I mean I feel very special and not a toast. Yeah so we started,
no it’s when I joined and I was I was doing them by monthly and I’m not doing them quarterly being kind of experimenting with the time commitment that like I tried last time to do 40 minutes instead of an hour and they just all went over like okay,
that I’m just going to do an hour ever recorded,
I find them really good Dino to like one boat kind of a possible connection to everybody who’s on the team to to come and get a sense of what people are worried about what’s going on.

Christian Mccarrick:
[23:26] Yeah the boss boss’s boss.

Cate Huston:
[23:29] Thing is not just kind of the time that I spend with people one-on-one but just kind of building this relationship where you know I’m not like some scary person you know that you can DM me on slack anytime.
Yeah, and I just I love you. Just since my heart beats like that to that even though it’s like true.
So that and you know it was it was a kind of a way to give kind of bandages on the team feedback and kind of a I check of of what’s going on.
I feel like part of being a good manager is spotting warning signs you know like something is.
Before something goes actually wrong like kind of finding Italiano other than like how we missed this deadline by like.
Two months why did that happen you know that there’s no way some things happening like a long before you know the deadline yeah and so kind of trying to gather some of those.

Christian Mccarrick:
[24:30] And how did you get over the the a little bit of the anxiety or anxiousness of some of your managers that’s it while you’re talking to my employee what what’s going on.

Cate Huston:
[24:35] About it you know does this worry you at all and kind of helping people like helping coach people in in finding those out early warning signals.

[24:56] Cat so I did it conversation ahead of time,
which was just like I’m just going to do this and I think one of the things that made it easier as I was coming in from you so I was just like I just want to get to know everyone you know I want to understand what’s going on,
so they need a questions ahead of time cuz they were basically the same questions that I’d ask them when I was interviewing.
And then I did a debrief afterwards so that in the first round I kind of equipped each team so it was.
8122 days I would do a whole team which was like really intense I did like 20 hours.
Of what I wanted 2 weeks and in the middle of that I will say likely to Philadelphia for 3 days for what computer,
somewhere that’s all right side like it was it was pretty intense but because they was so compressed it’s like they knew when they were starting and then like,
a day or two later they would Don and I was like let’s have a debrief let’s talk about why I noticed and I’ll just ask you questions about you know this person seems like this like what’s your experience with that.
What’s going on so I hope that kind of descale if I did at the beginning and then fit you know the new Ali.

Christian Mccarrick:
[26:07] That’s pretty awesome and I do.

Cate Huston:
[26:08] Experience of having a skip level with me like they knew what it was like so.

Christian Mccarrick:
[26:11] Over 200 something you know indirect and direct now so I can it’s really hard for me to get to everyone.

Cate Huston:
[26:14] About when I was continuing to do that with.

Christian Mccarrick:
[26:17] I do try to should have go through on a continual basis and pick different people from every team but I really like that concept you have.
Of doing everyone in one team instead of a cohort like really close together because of that train thing it’s something I haven’t thought of before and you know I really I might have to look into doing something like that cuz I think that could be very valuable.

Cate Huston:
[26:53] Kyle Evans from Matthias at Travis he talked about doing all his one-on-ones on a day to kind of see the trend.
And said that I just kind of Applied that today and 101 to a whole team and it was so helpful I guess especially alley on cuz you know when I joined this team like that haven’t really been like a manager with the team that being kind of repairs.
Like just kind of doing their own thing but there wasn’t much kind of coherence between them.
You know my friend skip levels while we’re pretty exciting you know like an.
Not knowing like the best way you know in that kind of cause a fight may you live in interesting times kind of way and lately like my skit part of one’s it got pretty boring if they’re like not.
Not that it’s boring for me to talk to these people like.

Christian Mccarrick:
[27:43] And that’s a reason to admit something else.

Cate Huston:
[27:45] And like I just like my cool you know connected with this pass when everything seems good you know let’s keep doing what we’re doing.

Christian Mccarrick:
[27:51] We do here too I think it’s very important when you sort of talk about the manager.

Cate Huston:
[27:54] Leslie.

Christian Mccarrick:
[27:57] You know we do it here a little differently then then how I read about you do it but I think just the concept of self of self of getting,
feedback from the employees about their managers and then to have going over and doing that retrospective is so important so what you just going to a couple minutes here about a little bit of kind of the to post you’ve written about the questions you asked and then some of the results.

Cate Huston:
[28:36] Cat so I do two kinds of feedback so the first one is just kind of feedback from outages so I send out a survey with a set of questions you know.
What’s the best thing about working with this pasta and like what do you like at your best like that you know is that anything they do to enable that it’s really it’s really like.
Interesting my car to help me put together these questions actually just another plug for the value of coaching and then I kind of take it back and kind of,
like pull out the trends of It kind of antenna into this kind of feedback piece which is like what did your team appreciate what do they want to see from you and then try and turn that into kind of takeaways you know by,
for example that your team really appreciate that you spend time with them that you care about them.
But what they like to see is that like one-on-ones to be more useful and so then I take away could be like you know why don’t you.
Look at some of these list of questions for one-on-one to try some different styles of doing them you know and so kind of it goes together like that I think it’s really easy for feedback to just become super overwhelming until I try to do that first piece of whack of like.
You know you still got the feedback but you also get some like starting point to making actionable and then the second thing I do is this.

[30:03] It’s late how do I put it.
It’s more numerical value is less qualitative and more like quantitative so it’s kind of a series of questions that people can score in like a 1/2 five-point scale and then you know I have this like,
fully automated spreadsheet system that just like.
Transit into a really useful graphs and said that I can see things for the overall organization I can see things potty.
And that’s based like a mini version of the kind of hole company engagement survey so we do and so that makes it a little bit.

Christian Mccarrick:
[30:43] That’s just going to ask what’s your frequency and we do quarterly as well I think that’s probably.

Cate Huston:
[30:46] Fastest way they were with the last time we did it.

Christian Mccarrick:
[30:48] Good set of differentiating time periods to you look at house.

Cate Huston:
[30:51] And then I tried to I also turn that into.

Christian Mccarrick:
[30:54] Suggestions or changes.

Cate Huston:
[30:55] Section of feedback for the leads on the team so I tried to be quarterly feedback for the weasel please on the team.

Christian Mccarrick:
[31:04] It is which is.

[31:13] Yeah I we I luckily I it’s like Ivan powdered someone on my team.

Cate Huston:
[31:18] Absolutely at night it’s a lot of work so much what is what that I find really hot.

Christian Mccarrick:
[31:19] An amazing sort of Google docs Excel spreadsheet was that helps me with all this and it’ll shout out to Eric on my team who does this and.

Cate Huston:
[31:28] It also really hard to do without.

Christian Mccarrick:
[31:31] Thank you Eric she listened but if you could Outsource that you know at least the the mechanics of it and you know do that but it’s it’s incredibly valuable.

Cate Huston:
[31:59] Yeah I’m like the opposite I’ve been doing this for my peers I am the spider,
passing by the people I get the less I write code that I like more intense my spreadsheets got out of a really intense but you for kind of tracking on my hiring data so I can kind of see like gender breakdown throughout,
the pipeline like obviously diversity is more than gender but like it’s a good thing to track,
yeah it is so much what buddy I mean it’s so valuable.

Christian Mccarrick:
[32:28] Absolutely and you know me I didn’t.

Cate Huston:
[32:31] Back is amount of Joe it’s so hard to know you’re doing well it’s so hard to know what you’re not doing well.

Christian Mccarrick:
[32:36] Your manager is Project Aristotle and they have a number of questions there.

Cate Huston:
[32:39] If you like doing pretty while I roll like people don’t want to complain but that doesn’t mean that is not stuff that you.

Christian Mccarrick:
[32:46] And you know I serve use that as the Baseline because I think they spend some time doing it and anything is better than nothing and I’m definitely trying to get to get something out there.
But it’s interesting it’ll be fine.
The first time we did it ever was a little nervous and I think I had to almost have a a not quite coaching but almost it’s okay you know what it’s okay to not be perfect session with my managers when they got all the feedback and I and I made sure the switch the first time.
That I put them in the room it was just like a focus of our 1 and 1/4 that time hey this is the feedback there like your report card. It’s okay but and two going to go over because some of them are like.
They felt depressed and you’re not going to get perfect and these are areas that your team is trusting enough to reach out and and offering guidance on how to help so and now I think it’s become a part of the culture.
And people should have been a really like that and then I do a set of a quarterly meeting to with the whole.
The whole company to kind of go over these to make it to really Embrace that sense of hey transparency and we’re trying to get better and we can’t get better without your input and it’s like that that virtuous cycle.

Cate Huston:
[34:06] Yeah I think getting my PS to run these as well was really good.
Because it became not just like a way where we were being public at the team about the things that we needed to do better cuz everything goes on our internal blog right it’s not like it since I’m meeting you in some dog that other people don’t have the link to,
it was something that you know at least two of my piss had done to write and so we could all see.
In other ways in which we were doing better in the ways in which we were falling short and you know.
Needed to kind of walk on and that I think is really helpful to write because it was a major.

Christian Mccarrick:
[34:40] Absolutely and we found some Trends to that across the organization different managers were scoring low in an area and in I was able to exert of Brainiac.

Cate Huston:
[34:44] Show me like I don’t expect people to be perfect you know I’m much more interested in people who are working to improve.

Christian Mccarrick:
[34:49] Coaching firm reviews The Thing Called Life.

Cate Huston:
[34:51] I just lie I just don’t want to know.

Christian Mccarrick:
[34:53] To come in on very some specific area.

Cate Huston:
[34:54] Thanks Bob but it’s better if I don’t know it’s like it’s always better to know anything.

Christian Mccarrick:
[34:57] Amazon sort of goal setting so I think it really helped to to show that he’s our weaknesses and then actually act upon it right and it gave me something to act upon it. Just picking things out of the air.

[35:12] Yeah it’s so I’ll put that link in the notes I’m going to put the link to your blog about these the feedback in the show notes as well as I’ll take some screenshots of some of our results to him put them on the show notes for listeners out there to kind of look after I highly recommend putting a.

[35:29] Going to do that hit one of the things that I found challenging and unit you talk also about having your managers work as a team.
And I think it’s interesting I found sometimes it’s harder it’s easier to get the individual I cease to work as a team cuz sometimes they’re working more on a maybe a common goal but harder to get.
You are a direct managers now to function as their team like in Hell and you talk about that until.
Can you tell me a little bit about how you know the steps you’ve made to make them feel like a teen themselves.

[36:14] Yeah.

Cate Huston:
[36:19] Cats silly funny cuz I really want my past to be a team now so I’m working on that and I was telling one of my managers about this and and he was like oh so you were planning on doing for them what they put you did for us,
exactly you know it was his way of showing I felt like I had what kind of a big pot is like just the language that we use.
You know and I was pretty explicit about it you know like the Azo team.

Christian Mccarrick:
[36:45] Pass the Baton.

Cate Huston:
[36:46] You know we do a team call each week with the leads on the team which includes our support lead to.
And every week we start with this thing called feelings time and so everyone has to talk about how they feel.
Yeah and sorry I liked it just is to be very clear it’s like hashtag Old Capitol feelings and then time in lower case.
And you know,
I think this is scary for people that fast but you know what a lot of it was about this idea that by being a manager was really lonely you know this is kind of,
opportunity to make it less likely it’s also kind of if a problem Escalades out of your team like it but,
out of like an individual’s team that they lead it becomes.
The leadership teams pop up late and then together we kind of figure out how we going to take it on,
so we do this include feelings time and then we have this kind of like team chore treacle kind of by is reviewing this thing with Cook mobile with class so basically if anybody in town only has any issue with it.
Spend that kind of white and intitle blog post about.
What they experienced into this kind of needs to be triaged so then whoever is happiest has to take home my requests definitely this issue is that like that,
people on the same people on happiest 2 weeks anyway,
and so kind of just this idea of like having something that is like our team’s responsibility that we divide throughout the team not necessarily equally but equitably if that makes sense.

[38:31] I think he’s been really good we used to do the team meet up earlier this year but we’ve kind of weave on boarded a bunch of new kneeling since then so we’re having another one in just over two months.
And kind of thoughts a really good opportunity to you if it’s the kind of be together and like have some time like as a team.
And then kind of finally just like in coveting that pay support you know like oh you know have you spoken to this person about this like you know.

Christian Mccarrick:
[38:59] Yeah I know it’s I think it’s tough and I agree I try to some of the.

Cate Huston:
[39:02] Yeah like maybe they can help you and just kind of encouraging The Hobbit.

Christian Mccarrick:
[39:04] Personalities to on some of my.

Cate Huston:
[39:07] I don’t feel like this is something.

Christian Mccarrick:
[39:08] The managers are sometimes even harder.

Cate Huston:
[39:10] Successful out yet.

Christian Mccarrick:
[39:11] The certain personality become a director level or manager.

Cate Huston:
[39:12] I think at least I’ve made Like A Better Effort than average and I’ve seen some progress.

Christian Mccarrick:
[39:16] The other you know they’re very focused on their teams but and sometimes it going to drive to Hertz corporate Kohl’s but each of them has their own specific,
agenda is a need to do when they’re not always necessarily.
Aligned with each other from the priority standpoint so I think it’s it’s really being that coach for the team and showing them and being clear at a higher level of abstraction at the company level what year.
And what your priorities are and what the mission is in the goals and in really trying to identify the how they all fit into that piece in the only door together it’ll make that happen.

Cate Huston:
[40:07] Yeah I think kind of intensive like trying to build that relationship amongst my peers like the thing that I’ve had the most successful,
the most success with its like one like offering to help people with things so like my kind of feedback cycle is really helpful for that.

Christian Mccarrick:
[40:24] That’s right number to Net10 data next month.

Cate Huston:
[40:25] He gave me a concrete thing that was like hey do you want to.

Christian Mccarrick:
[40:27] Any app I can sit here and talk for hours I think you have so many interesting things.

Cate Huston:
[40:29] And then also just kind of asking them for help to write like some of the point when I am willing to say like I’m really stressed by this I really bother you.

Christian Mccarrick:
[40:34] Lots of things but I any last items that you should have wanted to throw out there for the listeners about being a manager manager is or are trying to work for teens at that day you want to.

[40:56] Sure okay.

Cate Huston:
[41:05] It’s like one thing I realized the other day which is dead as the kind of.
Lake Norman highest on the technical old cat I realized I had like a lot of influence I like how women elsewhere in the kind of taco cat ization.
Retreated and this is really interesting to me it was something that I kind of like felt like I.

Christian Mccarrick:
[41:28] Yeah absolutely.

Cate Huston:
[41:29] New but it was a new thing to kind of experience and I think that’s kind of.
Different kind of figured out like this is something I’m kind of still unpacking so I feel like podcast the kind of good places to explore these and eventually I’ll write a blog post but you know it it’s kind of like if you don’t have.
If you were kind of seen a leadership is not diverse.
Then you know how does that impact people like I see it’s kind of you know manages if I see is and then I think you know as well kind of.
I think really just that fast observation is kind of the only concrete one I have for now and then this is why.

Christian Mccarrick:
[42:15] Sure and in that role now do you feel that you consider really help to sponsor.

Cate Huston:
[42:17] You know me talk about we don’t just talk about diversity that we talked about inclusion and then we don’t just talk about hiring but we will see.

Christian Mccarrick:
[42:22] Other women in the organization and as part of the role model and two really going to help respond to them to also try to move up into other ensuring leadership roles as well.

Cate Huston:
[42:26] Ultimately nothing going to change until we see kind of a more diverse set of people with kind of more like power and influence to change things.

Christian Mccarrick:
[42:47] Sure yeah.

Cate Huston:
[42:52] Yeah I think that’s totally absolutely the case but I think kind of beyond that there’s like I’m now a safe person for like my peers and for kind of manages to come to you with like.

Christian Mccarrick:
[42:59] Absolutely and I think you need to do mention the concepts of diversity and how that differs from inclusion.

Cate Huston:
[43:06] And I have no like vested interest in.

Christian Mccarrick:
[43:07] One of them was a quote that you that you put out his universities inviting someone to the dance including the inclusion is asking them to dance right.

Cate Huston:
[43:12] When is the level of influence that I think is often not really exposed you know.

Christian Mccarrick:
[43:16] And I think that’s that’s especially in in in with the everything going on today I think it’s it’s very important item in the end of the blog post about seeing a cleaning up what is it to the Cesspool of your hiring,
something illegal I read a lot but remember everything.

Cate Huston:
[43:33] Yeah exactly.

[43:46] Yeah.

Christian Mccarrick:
[43:48] Absolutely and you know I love to chat with you about that more to and another.

Cate Huston:
[43:52] Yeah I’ve been waiting last about I guess I used to write more kind of what I would think of is like diversity what I want.

Christian Mccarrick:
[43:56] I have some repeat people because it just seems like we don’t get enough in this in the shower time and we don’t want to listen is to be like these three hour Tim Ferriss.

Cate Huston:
[44:03] Advanced inclusion I guess is probably what I’m more interested in now.

Christian Mccarrick:
[44:06] I greatly appreciate the end for listeners out there what is the best way for people to certify you to read what you write to get in touch with you.

[44:22] Okay excellent and I’ll put all of those for the listeners honor shown.

Cate Huston:
[44:23] Oh my God who can listen to it 3 Hour podcast I’ll come by anytime this is been great thank you so much for having me.

Christian Mccarrick:
[44:26] Thank you very much for taking the time today I know you’re traveling over the world you’re extremely busy but I I learned a lot today but you would just have to reason I do this and I really appreciate the kind of getting to know you during the storm.

Cate Huston:
[44:39] Cate. Blog.

Christian Mccarrick:
[44:43] Absolutely and Charities under the awesome listen to the podcast edible charity that’s on my iTunes and on my archives as well so it’s certainly take another person I want to have back on because we just didn’t quite finish.

Cate Huston:
[44:57] I really enjoyed it thank you so much for having me and thank you to charity for the introduction.

Christian Mccarrick:
[45:03] Okay alright thank you very much and have a great day.

Cate Huston:
[45:21] That’s awesome  thank you.

 

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