Saurabh is currently an Engineering Manager at Twilio. He joined Twilio about 4 years back as a senior engineer. He then moved into a tech lead position and then transitioned into management about 1.5 years ago. Since then, he has grown into managing multiple engineering teams within Twilio’s Messaging organization. Before joining Twilio, Saurabh worked in a couple of fin-tech startups in the Boston area mostly in an Individual Contributor role. He has a strong passion for engineering leadership and is always looking for avenues to give back to the community. Other than computers, he is fond of reading, cars, astrophysics and travelling.
On today’s episode we discuss the importance of relationships and building trust.
[0:00] Good afternoon saurabh welcome to the show.Saurabh Daftary:
[0:06] Hi Kristin how are you doing I’m excited to be here.Christian Mccarrick:
[0:09] Yeah I’m doing great been super busy lately as I should have posted in the last free preview of my last podcast but that’s to be expected sort of taking over a new role at a company so that’s awesome
and so where are you actually calling from today.Saurabh Daftary:
[0:26] I’m calling in from San Francisco it’s pretty close to where you are.Christian Mccarrick:
[0:31] Yeah actually I used to work in San Francisco for a long time and I’m actually working from home today I’m actually out in the East Bay but yeah definitely in the Bay Area so that’s that’s always awesome glad to have folks
not only from around the world but also from the from my set of adopted Hometown as well great.Saurabh Daftary:
[0:49] Sounds funny I live in.Christian Mccarrick:
[0:57] No I’m actually over in Alamo is right next to Walnut Creek you know we could have we could have done this in a Starbucks which is always something I’ve always played around with the idea of kind of doing it live on on scene at some point getting some of that to the NPR type background noise in the in the back.Saurabh Daftary:
[1:11] Maybe next time.Christian Mccarrick:
[1:13] That’s right you’re great as I do to all of my guess I just want to can I have you introduced yourself a little bit to my listeners give him a little background of the highlights of of where you got to be and how you got to be where today.Saurabh Daftary:
[1:28] Sounds good so I have always like I have a very strong technical background from after my undergrad move to
United States did my Masters on NBC
in Boston and then after that I basically won’t desert soccer engineers in your opinion or whatever you want to call it.
I did that for about 3 to 4 years eczema and then do some things right like the,
those are very ill defined so I went in like it was to senior software engineer kind of rude but I was doing and everything.
From there I wanted to move into you wanted to move to the Bay Area to the valley and all that and that’s when I started to you that speak again for years back.
I thought it was a senior engineer Ventrilo at that time.
Video would have been around 250 to 300 people talking about her messaging organization.
Just a quick one minute snapshot of Toyota one window too many too much detail but just for everyone to know.
[2:46] Easily an API company business business company very we have a PS2 to anyone communication so maybe I should send text messages voice calls.
Push notifications and stuff like that.
Ace Hardware in the messaging organization of starters as a senior engineer at the time the team was five to six people.
To send I’m now I moved into a.
Event moving to a tech lead role of Stater border near and then moved into an engineering management position about a year-and-a-half,
started managing a team up around 5 to 6 people from there right now I’m basically managing around and around [12:30].
Funerals in the time like I said then I started messaging was around 5 people right now we are on 3540 Villard.
Sweetie in a Nacho of mine.
[3:42] Sure and about how many people are in Tokyo today cuz it’s obviously gone through quite a lot of growth since you joined.
[3:49] Yeah so that is 300 right now be there in a bit because of an ounce to be calculation Amphitheatre on.
[3:58] Yeah sure
it definitely you seen a lot of growth during that time and there’s lots of challenges I wish I could be a whole surf topic of the conversation for another show I had a handle and be a manager in really a fast Growth Company some other kind of where I am now
and I think most of our listeners probably
not only have heard of twilio but innocent you know they’re probably use twilio I know I’ve used Toyotas apis in a lot of the,
companies that have worked out in the past and you know hopefully more more people are also using all Sierra’s apis which which where I’m at now
you should have you you talking about going into being a tech lead and then going into an e m and then sort of almost being like a senior manager kind of now if you’re actually managing kind of multiple teams
how do you get into just being a manager and it what does it was it a planned thing or is it start of something that was more subtle.
[4:52] I think of initially it was I need the Lord of it and how I see it running man
give me through this in my head to me I think management doesn’t support function right and then helping people
acting as a forcing multiplier or acting as a mentoring people in all of that allowed me to easily progress into management or leadership in in in fashion right because you’ve always heard stories and dump trucks,
there’s obviously the authoritative position you get into but there are times where you can act in certain rules.
Bye-bye just about you of your personality right so that’s how it started for me and I was always motivated by by helping people and then and then
and the main training and then acting as opposed to soap from the server. Mine said I went into trunk from a senior engineer can have multiple,
multiple teams in Malta.
Right away when you do find it but how I seem so my role was to like looking at your pussy right and not
not particularly focused on being the strongest technical person and I say that Loosely about voting and focusing on the delivery in education.
[6:16] And and then then from that point onward,
what was the impact of mccreight like adding when you start getting some for the leadership role you start realizing the value of an impact you can have right as an ICU.
Have a very tangible impact and very direct impact that he can see but as you get in the mood management and Leadership positions it’s it’s more about.
The larger impact that you can have right and that was my motivation at that point in time to move into management and interim to Justine that if I can
if I can have more impact in the other night.
[6:59] Absolutely and you know not only obviously you’re probably were looking to have a a greater positive impact but I think
the other thing is also true that some people can going into management and it can also exacerbate you know a negative impact on a larger scale as well which is something we haven’t a job.
[7:17] I think that’s a very good point right like I think nnnnn negative impact position of authority
I think it’s a dangerous 33 to be in right I think you should at least how I see management function and function
an inverted mindset that allows you to to to to make sure that you.
You are hiding people and you want them to succeed right so,
BB problem that I see specially with a lot of people and medium answering the question the next person you might not but what I see is when when Engineers moving to believe that they are the smartest,
and create problems because you do not allow people to grow within be if I also have a negative impact on your side if you have a lot of other smart people in your team is it clear to st. Paul sense of competition,
which it should be the other way around people this morning and see if you have on your team,
and I’m in the mood for them to succeed the more successful you will be and it’s important.
[8:29] Sure and you know kind of getting into that some of the negative things that the managers can are the bad habit and get into in the become managers was there anything specific you made that has a mistake coming into management for the first time.
[8:44] The first thing is I failed at especially coming from an engineering background
indigenous pressure to know it all right like this in your head it’s like you’ve come from an engine in back especially if you move from
you you think you assume that every so you every problem that comes in you will have the solution to that problem right and it’s important that you step back from that,
and then focus on most Egypt things if it helps into it right it it helps a for people under you to grow and and and in the groom themselves and then Step Up
and then the other thing is it also allows
you do blow yourself and have that brought him back right and then and then think strategically.
It’s important to identify quickly and not get into that mood for longer-term and then the second I got to talk about this over committing,
again coming from an engineering background you have pics off like it is how I see the engineer stand to be like,
fairly optimistic in terms of how things can get done and when things getting it done so it’s important like.
As you can do managers do not overcome it and not the temptation of old coming in trying to be like yes this really get done and ending a little more careful and then when committing.
[10:13] Yeah absolutely in in one of the talks I recently gave to I talk about that you’re learning how to say no is such an interesting and important skill because the other thing it’s not only.
Managers thinking they know everything but it’s also about new managers thinking that they should know everything right and if they want to help when they want to prove themselves so by taking on too much work
sometimes it actually you know it sets you up for failure instead of focusing on a few items that you can be successful.
[10:41] No I think that’s that’s a very good point right and then the other aspect that does is an important aspect of management is also if you are trying to solve every problem.
Every time you do that you not giving someone else the opportunity within the team to step up to do that right and and and then do the consequence I filled out,
all of that aside I think it’s okay to let things be in a couple of times,
make sure that picture for people to step into different if you
put a bandaid on everything that you think you can solve it’s not helping it’s not helping the long-term growth of the eat right I also feel that it sometimes okay sometimes okay to let things go
but the deadline right long-term mindset.
[11:38] Sure yeah and you you mentioned should have one of the jobs to help grow new leaders and managers what what tips do you have for.
New managers out there that are brand new or they’re thinking about becoming a manager’s how do you counsel and Coach those those people.
[11:57] So the first thing I feel is it’s a it’s super important to do to identify and then identify the talent appropriate conversations on your team
do to make sure that you understand intrinsically what your gold goals are for different people in England right and then,
basically giving opportunities around that aspect right so for me in in in in in in in my case I think.
When I try to look with you was to identify like as soon as I am when I am getting into Engineering Management who should be the next eclipse coming right and then identify that talent and then giving them opportunities and then.
And then making sure that you have a plan in place right I think one of the things again after you is a manager for managers in general that you don’t we don’t have.
[12:49] The carrier conversations as often as we should write.
[12:53] Even for it says there are the times when when when when the report will come up and talk to them about what should be my promotion father what should be My Girl part in a lemon.
It’s like Eve.
It should be the other way. Right it’s like as a manager so you need to take the step first and then talk about what’s the next challenge you want to talk.
What’s your 6 month plan what’s your name month plan and then having those in place.
And then making sure that you are then giving opportunity and then and then driving to a building this relationship and a planet,
okay to have conversations between in manager reading the conversation motion sir. What’s wrong,
I don’t think that’s the right mind.
If you have if you had a conversation on on someone that doesn’t mean that you would not have another conversation around. Or for 6 months because you just ordered some and right it has to be a continuous process and you have to think.
Important to motivate people it’s important to show people that they are and give them the light in terms of what they want to do and have a 6 to 9 month plan for their growth and and then having those conversations.
[14:19] Yes and what are the points you made about making sure you have a nose growth conversation if you look at their kind of Google rework website and I’ll put that on the show notes one of the things that I did they have identified as it makes a
a much more effective manager is one of the points is actually having career conversations and one of the questions that they ask on the survey they gave his.
Does your manager you don’t have career conversations with you because it’s something that is so important to,
I see you soon I just I see is but for people on your team that that reporting to you.
[14:54] Right and if I did I would even taste like you more than just conversations right. I like having a plan in place
and and then and having them frequently enough right to suspects are super important that having a plan in place and then having them frequently in up to that,
so that it’s it’s completely open and it’s very confident in terms of what your intention is and and then what you want.
[15:22] Absolutely I agree with that first started having two conversations but a plan is is much better and to be transparent about that because sometimes there might not be,
growth for a particular person on your team or or in a short. Of time and being open,
to looking at other teams in the end of the department or something else in order for you to help.
It really gives an employee kind of what they need for their for their professional development.
[15:48] Those things are important right because I think Indian would you end up doing if you are trans better than you build trust
my tortoise did you need to think something from a long-term perspective I did not think of things from a shotgun perspective and as soon as you are
stopped in eyesight for long-term success for yourself your team or even the report you have
things to play out the Lord easy as all these things answers become easy but if you think short-term wedding things we come home.
[16:18] You know one of the things you you talk about a little bit just now was was trust and I want to spend a little bit the rest of the episode here today talking about.
The soccer skills of management to empathy trust in relationships and you’re one of the things.
That and I think you mentioned when we were kind of sharing some notes before is
that relationships and building relationships in fostering them with your team is so important so tell me a little bit about why fostering relationships with your team is really important like what are the benefits.
[16:53] The first thing I want to think about as any relationship when you say it’s even say it’s it’s more Drake real relationships right.
I personally think like the the whole idea of a lot of my work life is my work life and my,
my personal life is my personal I think it’s important and I’m not saying that you should not have a person life but I think you should bring your whole self to work right and it’s important that you do understand that right.
Whether it’s work whether it’s your personal relationships and every relationship is a very good friend of yours.
[17:35] And now outside of work always invited it’s the same thing,
it’s someone that you do have strong relationships with sweating that’s the mindset I look at these things as far as relationships and then.
Strong relationship with a redirect if you have a comment or question and don’t do why do I think it’s important.
Benefits that you get out of his right leg once you start building strong relationships with everyone within the team and and then the person that you get it.
And then we can have some discussions about like what what does means and WaterGirl gives you and all of that but.
[18:21] Bending song trust with everyone is is that then when when when people come to work they they are a lot more free and then.
If they’re a lot more freedom in their bed so they feel a lot more fulfilled about their jobs they work better with each other over all get better results and that’s something you will not get
if you going to have that implicit strong relationship and Trust in place so,
by building this song released by winning song relationship with every month and then building song trust that they give you some crust around it you motivate people to be a lot worse.
[19:07] No absolutely
and in the in the book the leadership challenge by Barry Posner one of the coaches has when leadership is a relationship founded on trust and confidence
people take risks make changes keep organizations in woman to live through that relationship leaders turn their constituents into leaders and selves right and and that’s her.
Talks to the point you talking about about why trust and some of the benefits of of forging those relationships with your employees at work.
[19:37] Now that’s an interesting that’s a super awesome quote.
[19:40] Yeah I’ll put that and I have a couple of in here today cuz you know one of the things I like to do is when it when I serve talked about topics and shows I’m really
I read a memory exotic and I just like sometimes I read too much and I got distracted but you know I really think that
as a leader it’s important to constantly learning and one of the reasons why I do this show is
because when I get to I think talk to really awesome people about really kind of challenges on our day-to-day lives but also
I find that I learn. It helps me to learn and improve both professionally and personally and learn new things and I think that’s such an important aspect of being a leader as well as is really continually,
trying to learn across all aspects of your life.
[20:23] No I think I think too much on on delivery
and then you to bog down with with what you need to do over the burning fires that are around you don’t spend time in in building your skill sets and it’s very tangible right I need to go learn this
a language I need to learn about this new technology but whatever else.
It’s interesting when you get into management you take certain these things for the Samsung and for granted because you are mostly focused on I need to get this thing out by this time frame right and then that’s basically you think your job account
spending time to building your skill sets having mental mental reading appropriately like talking to other people understanding
how things around it is so important as a manager.
[21:23] I know that’s right and taking the time not only to learn and self improve but,
when you talk about relationships right relationships are not just a transactional type of of thing they take time so what are the things aside from explicitly making sure that you do take the time.
To help build relationships what are some of the tools that you use to help build those strong relationships with your team.
[21:52] The first one I’ll say is is is making sure that you are having your one-on-ones on a very regular fashion,
some of the things that I’ve kind of done that I think
I think the first part is like making sure that you do wear one on one side and then making sure that you made all Frederick report important that the one on one meeting is as important than any other meeting that you might have right and not sticking to it
so I don’t think I do is I need my one-on-ones basically changeable on both sides so and then I communicated out to all my reports,
if I do happen to have something in my one-on-one.
Do you happen to have something on that one on one dish remove it out but then we should try and make sure that he at least touch base once in two weeks or once in one week.
Is the appropriate time frame to match for 2 weeks.
[22:50] Nicholas around this in Norfolk on on on on status updates right that’s that’s something that you regret.
Login in your general meeting and all of that stuff you’re the one who wants to be everything but status updates right so.
Things like what would I think you do is it’s pushing for first give the first 5 to 10 minutes for 4.
What’s up food for my data to go to talk about things that they care about that they have what would they want to talk about and then if they don’t have things then,
identifying trees do some prep work on my side to bring in a couple of other things right and then I also use that time to talk about other things like what’s going on in the organization,
what do you think are things that can strategically blue and then just doing random conversations around different things even even things that I like.
Like I don’t know call it gossip but just the way inside so that allows.
I don’t want to say it like this right on the same part I think one other thing that I think is important what are like something that’s not the office environment.
And that allows you to sleep when they have these conversations and then and then give them an open settings then more like traditional one-on-one.
[24:13] One other thing that I do is and this is something I read somewhere I do.
Once a month of fasting cause low I don’t know if you heard it or not.
Bike BTD idea is that you have you ask your direct reports to YouTube.
[24:31] Find out where they are between challenge that they are facing in their current role and the skill sets that they have on their current role and then and then.
Make sure you point Challenge on on on you you point Challenge on the y-axis and skill sets on the x-axis and then ask them to basic.
[24:48] Put a dot on where they think they are on long-distance right and then and then the idea is that when you force them to do something like this and then you do the same ones in 6 weeks already.
Allows you to even have a conversation off the right do the Peabody challenge
it’s okay. The white surprises at times because you might get lost when you have a lot of these.
The Lord things going on you have always true this allows you to go back and then focus on them which is an important part.
Nothing I say is being very good friends I think about it like this.
In Supermart like a good friend Samara see good friends I really mean it right so.
Again you don’t want to ask too many personal questions for knowing people personally super important maybe doing casual events together right and then or inviting,
people for dinner world like what I do is sometimes we do things like word from someone’s house like we take the dirty motor not working office
anime Boku for 5 hours and then do something after the show or maybe even I don’t know if it’s possible to do a overnight trip with the team to doing things like that,
Simplicity belts Laura strong relationship and then.
[26:17] Sure and you’re the one thing I think that’s the sort of almost to the first principle that a lot of managers don’t always do too because it can become uncomfortable.
Is dealing with silence and just listening right there’s a there’s a great lead developer talk by Kevin Goldsmith I’ll put in the show notes as well.
But he talks about.
In the beginning instead of his with some when he was doing one-on-one he would in an hour go by and you realized that he talked to entire time and and you know his his direct report didn’t say anything.
So you don’t think it’s also important as managers to understand that sometimes silence is okay and it might be uncomfortable but if you don’t talk.
Then it. Also might be a way that gets your employee to start opening up and talking as well.
[27:04] I think that’s a very good point in listening is is hard on to right because not everyone does it but it’s important.
[27:15] Sure night I think you also talked about something briefly which is not only should use it as a manager or as an employee bring your whole person to work.
I think as a manager it’s an also important to recognize that the employee you have working for you is also a whole person right and that.
They might have things.
Completely unrelated to the latest deliverable or Sprint whatever is that is affecting their lives and to be aware of that into.
Open up that trust gets you some more visibility into being able to help that person you’ll get over or through or just maybe give him the space they need for for sure. Time.
[27:57] I think that’s a very good point and I think I should have signed beginner second book I forgot the name of it she talked a lot about,
being vulnerable and then being more posts like be more empathetic towards a lot of this she has a lot of videos
I think it’s called like the things that I can’t remember the name of the book
that’s a pretty good book in terms of just talking about what you’re just saying right it’s it’s about like.
It’s like liquid example if anyone can go to a person problem right.
It’s a game creating those boundaries that this is my world like versus as my post likes or doesn’t fit in if you have had a personal issue it’s completely okay to talk about it.
if you have that relationship of trust you want to make sure that you support your employee to die because in the end that that would be off and that’s the right thing to do so I can get the Super Bowl.
[29:01] And again back to the concept of trust which I think a lot of relationships that’s really sort of the the foundation of a lot of relationships and.
In in in the book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People Stephen Covey talks about the emotional bank account.
And you should have build this trust by making deposits into the relationship right but you can also a road some of that trust,
or by taking
withdrawals out so as an engineering manager if you kind of use that Paradigm what are some things you you see that would be deposits for your employees and then what what do you see something that might be withdrawals you know from that emotional banking.
[29:44] Interesting very very interesting perspective to look at that right
talked about before and then and then it’s about making sure that
knowing people personally right building relationship of print like building a friend friendship relationship that you have with your direct reports I think of.
A couple of things I had to hide being very transparent this important right because transparency builds Trust.
Good example is like I think X managers will not talk through
do not talk to the like what’s the next promotion cycler how is the promotion process worker or if things go wrong in certain cases lighting,
timeline on this but I think you are on the side of my employees.
Things that you can share and it’s okay to Sheraton you should always.
Transparent season important
you might not always have the right answer you might always you might not always do the right thing so if you do things that are wrong.
[30:57] Getting your hand up and then saying in the more one-on-one one or two public setting setting specifically and maybe I should have handled this better or what are your thoughts,
maybe those would be the things that are deposits around this,
any any any thoughts any that you would want to add on another.
[31:20] Sure I’m in a couple things too I think feedback is certainly certainly another one like honest feedback is you talk about I think that can help develop that.
That’s her to trust and I don’t just mean Praise You and I sort of mean you really valid feedback because I think people really appreciate that when they know that it’s coming from.
A positive place right it’s coming from a place of good intent where you’re actually giving feedback because you want the person to succeed not because you’re trying to.
You know criticize them or anything like that.
[31:56] Write speed bag speed bag is that.
Feedback is always hard to get specifically critical feedback and it’s not comfortable but if you do have if you have been too strong relationship of trust with your employer even if you know them personally
it’s become slightly easier to give the key back and they understand that it’s for the right cause and it becomes
deep desire in the right direction.
If it’s a force feedback are you hiding from feedback then it doesn’t play out well because it is really really down and do not take it seriously. It becomes a plane game and doesn’t go away.
[32:43] Exactly nothing one final thing probably is a lot of people really like autonomy right now. Kind of allowing them to to do what they want without being micromanaged I think helps helps create deposits as well.
[32:58] That’s another part right and then they like you need to trust you and drives to do the thing and then and then step back and I think that is super important because if you don’t trust them
and if you playing micromanage it’s not letting them succeed it’s not letting you succeed because any other game focusing on the wrong.
[33:19] Yeah and now you know I’m sure there’s a whole list but what do you think are some of the things that would be withdrawing from the bank account with your employee.
[33:28] Yeah I didn’t go through some of those things that you talked about not doing those things are good we looking for drugs so I got to talk about micromanagement is a big one,
doesn’t help anyone if you are,
micromanaging if you are not and it’s interesting but I think it can happen if you have an engineering manager interview updated if you have another manager was reporting to you this again. Especially grown into the X Factor.
Diane acting certain rules and it’s important to give people space so if you tie in microchips like for example.
I have a new lead in my team and if I.
[34:09] It’s important that I set the ground rules Cindy affectations and then work as a team instead of trying to solve problems on both ways and that will affect I’m micromanaging all that.
Don’t even notice with that person starts with the team right indicates confusion.
So that’s another thing I’m not confident I think it’ll Trust,
and then specifically for things without the cheese is like like for example promotions and say you want to put an employee for from Ocean right and and and then and then,
for whatever reason that does not happen or doesn’t doesn’t work out it’s important that you share that you be very confident that the employer,
and if that if you don’t do that and it’s a two months later does notch mean is made of and then he asked you and then you have to answer that doesn’t help de-stress right
it’s okay to not have certain things go through but it’s very important to be transparent and about those things.
So I think that’s the other thing is Elsie is is trying to beat you at all.
And then the game as a manager like if you are trying to be authoritative.
What do you want to do is.
[35:27] You want to build relationships and you want to build trust and that’s all you want to make sure that people were people are motivated to do it if you try and find.
Who was trying to rape people too much as a manager and not the other way around.
[35:49] Sure I think at times as a manager having built up that that kind of emotional balance can help with inadvertent things to like as a manager you might make a mistake
and if you’ve already built up that should have trust with your team they’re more willing to you know let it slide as a mistake instead of something they might have thought you might have done intentionally or even things like you might need your team to work over weekend
and if they know and trust you and know that this is not something you you know you would have asked them to do unless it was.
Yeah absolutely necessary I think some of those things you know you can,
you can get some of that out of your team because I do trust you but if you do that too much right then that will completely ruin the trust.
[36:33] Very good point they even look at you say that and it’s like last week we had this right we had a big burning fire and and and
it took a while and we needed people to ship out a couple of changes
and then I walked like late like 10 a.m. or p.m. in the morning easier to have that conversation when you have that relationship of trust right when you when you know people personally
you are good friends to each other it’s a lot easier to have that conversation asking someone even if you are there manager position of authority
ironing board that far maybe it’ll happen once but then we’ll go.
[37:15] No we always hear about.
Eqr emotional intelligence and everyone talks about how important that is what were some of the traits of emotional intelligence that you feel are important for your managers to exhibit with with their teams.
[38:45] Is is is is is making sure that.
If you are self-centered right I think staying centered is is a sting Center license to sell scented things and making sure that you are fairly.
You’re fairly okay and you’re in in your personal life in your head and then in your doing your routine and then that is important when you come back to work,
because otherwise I think if you are if you are very distracted in your personal life I don’t think that that that plays a very good start showing in terms of your what you’re doing at work so I think things centered is it super important,
the other Hospital talk about as far as emotional intelligence is concerned basically making sure that.
You are connecting with your direct reports on a more personal front right in front and if you’re if you’re building that relationship
I’ll Trust and friendship with them. That allows you to be emotionally more connected with them and then build a relationship of trust and then go from there.
[40:03] Is it one of the things that that I take I want to make a point out to Wiz in this is important for managers to understand.
Is to not take silence or not equate silent with agreement.
Right I think it’s important as managers to also have the understanding to know that just because someone is insane
they don’t agree how loud it doesn’t mean that they do agree and I think it’s something that is managers is important for us to suss that out a little bit to look at whether it’s body language or behavior or anything to just make sure that.
That that is the case right there they’re grew they don’t.
But that you want that to be explicit and not just implicit which can of course lead to miscommunication and misunderstandings and and and really I think potentially road that ever that trust is well.
[40:56] I think that’s that’s another very good very good point right I think in general like not even talking to her direct reports writing as a manager you want to be or you would always want to order on the side of the next.
Or emails or what meetings are you have frosting meetings in all that a lot of the times not being explicit.
So much confusion around things right I would always I think I would always advise managers or anyone from the position of authority,
repeat what someone else said right to make sure that the intention is very clearly laid out
I do that as long as my direct reports in my concerns that they have a musically answering the concern isn’t one to understand
you listen and then you repeat what they said and then ask them that this is exactly that you mean it is that the same thing you mean or not and then company,
spelling of being explicit I completely agree with you sober.
[41:56] Great I think one of the things,
the final things out of retirement here’s how do you handle a relationship that’s not going so well or that you’re not getting along any tips to set up either Salvage it or or or make a better working relationship.
[42:12] I think the game just have to be to your case to case misses right because they could be different multiple reasons on why things are not being honest right
if you think the things are not going through pretty okay confronting that is important.
A lot bigger than your normal tendency is to be silent and then let that happen that’s not a good thing
confronting it up front and then talking about it is it super important.
That might not necessarily solve the problem but at least you may be
maybe something has to change right I might solve the problem because it might be because there is some confusion or things are not going okay and health maybe if it’s a performance control
bringing in early and then talking upfront will allow and have a discussion and then you can go from there and maybe sometimes but if he’s having their conversation and confronting the situation so I think it’s.
[43:12] You know awesome and something that I also asked all my guests any we believe we’ve gone through a whole bunch of different resources today we’ve books and other things but anything that you additional would recommend
how to my listeners that you have found interesting or helpful in any kind of in your career.
[43:31] Yep at the manager spot nobody comedy shows.
The debt that I would recommend
I think that’s a good place to have discussions it’s very busy people in order to be crowded and all that but it’s a good place to have conversations
especially different things that you’re interested in.
So it’s I think it’s good good to being involved in the community like that I think that that’s important.
The last thing I see is just like going to leadership conference or even
getting yourself involved in things like platter which is basically those things are important so that you are involved with the community and then you talk.
[44:32] That’s right and whether it’s conferences or Play-Doh or the ransack channel the point you made was really good is.
Just talk to people there’s a lot of people that are,
dealing with the soda same issue as you have maybe they’ve dealt with him already and they can help you and some cases maybe you can help someone else because you might have been able to solve an issue that someone else had it so just you’re not alone so I do this podcast
reach out to other people joining Community but that is.
We so good for just helping you professionally and frankly it’s good I think emotionally to understand that we’re all kind of going through this together.
[45:10] Video Dailymotion.
[45:12] So what is the best way for anyone to get a hold of you if they’re listening to show they wanted to reach out to you with a question or a follow-up how can people get ahold of you.
[45:22] I didn’t listen to be messaging me on LinkedIn I think that that would be the simplest way to do it.
[45:36] Cheryl I’ll put I’ll pick her LinkedIn profile on the show notes which you can find at a simple ownership. I owe and I’ll put this episode up there as well with all the details that we’ve talked about me we certainly have gone through a lot.
Well you know I appreciate spending the time this evening it’s already dark out to Daylight savings and all but yeah I really enjoyed our conversation and and thank you for taking the time.
[45:58] Thank you so much for tonight I loved having an opportunity to talk to you have it listen so many of your podcast.
[46:09] Thank you and have a great night.
[46:11] Thank you bye bye.